Curse

Wenspire · Apr 05, 2011, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Ever since I came up a 4-Ranger team setup, I wanted to create a 4-ele team setup that could go through all the dungeons in HM (with little/minor tweaking depending on area) as well. So far I came up with what is listed below. I'm sure some of you will disagree with many of my skill choices, but I wanted to keep the ele setups similar and ele skills being the source of the damage (after all, it's an ele-group build I wanted to make). The necro elite is ify-ify for me so far and I only chose it to help make the targets easier to kill.

So far I have tested it in today's ZB (Bloodstone) and Vloxen. The later went very well and I ended up with level 1-3 times of 5/26/7 with no wipes and maybe 1-2 hero deaths. My key tactic is focus-firing on what is in front of the spirit wall in order to keep it alive (usually starting with glyph sac + MS). I hopefully will try clearing all the dungeons in the book for further testing and tweaking. This is also the first time I've played with the AP elite which I'm still trying to get used to.

IronSheik · Apr 05, 2011, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Since you have mass burning glowing gaze can replace glyph.

Fire breath is only adjacent, bring searing heat for bigger AoE

Again tons of burning, bring they're on fire.

4 AoE KD skills and no earthbind?

Nilator · Apr 05, 2011, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I'm not sure about Restore Life on the first monk and the second monk has Mirror of Disenchantment?
I havn't even seen that skill used so I don't know if it is any decent.

I might recommend replacing that nec with an MM for more damage mitigation.

Wenspire · Apr 05, 2011, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I have been avoiding the use of an MM on my group builds so won't be using one of those. The rez on the monk is on manual use only. I thought about earthbind but decided against using it because of the multiple KD skills I have. Unfortunately, They're on Fire is Leadership so I won't be able to use that skill in my group setup. I forgot to include Ebon Ward of Honor so I replaced Glowing Gaze with that.

Just finished up Rragars HM with level 1-3 times of 15/17/11. Nothing in terms of extraordinary speed, but did have very little trouble. One wipe only from a group of smiter hounds and their RoJs.

Skye Marin · Apr 05, 2011, 02:30 AM // 02:30

With all those packets of damage, you'll definitely want to bring EBSoH. It basically doubles the attack damage of every DoT spell you have, which you have 13. Quick math says it'll add an extra 1200+ damage every 30 seconds, easily.

Lanier · Apr 05, 2011, 03:19 AM // 03:19

with a team based on Savannah heat, I would strongly suggest snares like Deep freeze. Earthbind would also be great, and you already have a spirit spammer anyway.

Kelfer · Apr 05, 2011, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

I would strongly suggest snares like Deep freeze

1 word: Scatter
Use SF if no DF

AndrewSX · Apr 05, 2011, 06:15 AM // 06:15

As said above: if you're using DoT AoE spells, a snare is a must. Best choiches would be Deep freeze, but i like shared burden too(mes elite, but worth the slot on a hero).
Also, the necro seems there just to use cracked armor, the rest of the bar is quite meh.
Slot it on another char(eles or rit are both good, get rid of an extra DoTAoE spell or communig spirit) and swap it for something else. Mesmer(Shared burden for snare, panic, PI or whatever u want) or Derv(Avatar of balth to spread burning to fuel SF instead SH, cracked armor/blind/cripple using flashements, etc) would be my favorite choiches.
Finally, the 2nd monk. If u want a protter ER ele would work fine, but considering that -1. eles are all there for dmg 2.you haven't any minion- i'd put there a ST Rit for defence. Just micro it(as u should do with the Sos) and you'll be fine.

cataphract · Apr 05, 2011, 08:39 AM // 08:39

I wouldn't go all fire. My personal preference when going "four eles" is having all elemental schools.

Pugs Not Drugs · Apr 05, 2011, 03:52 PM // 15:52

if this is for nm, four sf> four savannah because it doesnt cause scatter. all you do is flag the mm into large mobs first so they crowd around the minions, and charge in with your four eles and sf things to death. in nm, the damage from sf is comparable to discord buts its got huge aoe and unconditional. whats not to like

majoho · Apr 05, 2011, 04:04 PM // 16:04

It will work just fine but it's far from optimal.

If I was to use 4 eles I would NOT go with 4 fire eles. I would definitely use some different elements.

Knockdowns: you have Meteor already on all of them you could probably use more Meteor Showers
Earth: Aftershock, Ash Blast, Churning Earth
Water: Deep Freeze (don't need to invest many points in it).

Aside from that a mesmer with Psychic Instability keeps mobs down for quite a long time as well.

JDRyder · Apr 05, 2011, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Two things I would change (1st thing is the only important change really) I'd change the necro to something else more useful. Maybe even a smite monk which I think would go well with what you have. Or you could make the SoS a necro and use this 3 person back line I've been testing over the last few days with a few changes seen below. Its a little odd lol but it works for my basic HM needs with a team build I've been making. Also I main monk so Idk how well this would work with 2 heros. That said I have a bad habit of being distracted while I play and generally the one hero monk can hold its own with me reading guru post or watching TV.

For kicks maybe change from fire to earth. Haven't tested them in such away but I've been using this basic build on eles for quite some time and like it. Think it would go well with what you're trying to do.

PS: ignore the atts on the eles, I just quick loaded a pre-existing build

Wenspire · Apr 05, 2011, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone! I did decide to add in Earthbind in place of Anguish just for the potential added KD length. I want to keep AoE/DoT damage to a maximum so I am trying to keep with the fire line.

Killing power isn't much of an issue with this group build; it's the controlling of the scatter. I find that much of how well things turn out depend on the pulling and the initial MS drop. Still working on getting it more controlled. I just did Ooze Pit with a 25 min clear time today. I ended up subbing in a ST-prot rit in place of my prot monk to combat the aoe damage from the ooze. Things worked well with maybe one or two deaths getting to bosses (and an added 3 from a boulder) and one wipe at the bosses.

Not sure if anything has been posted regarding HM dungeon completion times (not dungeon SC times), but I'm curious to see what the times people are getting now that the 7-hero update is out. If anyone is still doing dungeons please share your times along with what type of setup you went in with. Thanks!

EDIT: For Frostmaw, I ended up with 3/7/17/18/4 on level times. Only a bit of problems on level 4 with the Madrigors. The lack of a blockable corner/area and their ability to shadow step made things problematic.

Thommis in 16min and Rand after for another 27min.
Selves in 34min. The clerics on the hilltop were pretty easy to kill surprisingly.
Bogroot (Griff's) in 12/23. The dormant husk skill was a pain.

majoho · Apr 06, 2011, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

I want to keep AoE/DoT damage to a maximum so I am trying to keep with the fire line.

Yeah your build will do just fine no doubt about it, in fact pretty much all builds will - but why do you insist on fire being a good damage source?

In hard mode mobs have high armor ratings that's why eles in general are not considered very good damagers - armor ignoring damage is where it's - that's why people use discord and mesmers. Eles in HM is usually used for control.

(also this thread really belongs in the Hero section)

Wenspire · Apr 06, 2011, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Yeah your build will do just fine no doubt about it, in fact pretty much all builds will - but why do you insist on fire being a good damage source?

In hard mode mobs have high armor ratings that's why eles in general are not considered very good damagers - armor ignoring damage is where it's - that's why people use discord and mesmers. Eles in HM is usually used for control.

(also this thread really belongs in the Hero section)

I am aware of the benefits of armor-ignoring damage and would like to see how much better it is in an actual gameplay (in a zone doing something). I am more interested in seeing how much better other classes do than the ele and was hoping some people would have been able to supply some dungeon times so that I could do some comparisons.

Though this in some way is related to heroes (since I have heroes in my setup obviously), I think it's more about how fire eles work in HM. But feel free to move this into the Hero section if needed.

EDIT:
Forgewight in 42min. A few wipes in the open area after the locked door. Killing Forge's group was very quick with manually making one ele drop a meteor on the main group at start.
Kathandrax in 20/18/15. Easier than Forgewight by far.
Duncan in 27 min. No problems doing encountered with swap use.
Darkrime in 22/22/7.
Raven's in 13/17/6. Winter.
Sepulchre in 17/4.

Wenspire · Apr 07, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Well, I attempted to sub in mesmers in place of the eles (had to use 1 necro since I didn't have mercs) and redid Duncan in HM. I ended up with a 27min clear time which was identical to the ele setup time.

I ran an Ineptitude build, 2 mes heroes ran Esurge and the necro ran Panic. The monks, rit and lingering curse necro stayed the same (though I forgot I had a ST-prot rit on my ele run but deaths really weren't a problem with both). Since I didn't have Norgu unlocked initially, he went in as level 18 and was 19 in the middle of the run. I'm sure I probably wasn't running optimal mes builds to others' standards, but I don't know how much better the times would have been if I did.

EDIT:
Thommis in 12min and Rand 19 more. The lack of having to deal with the scattering from DoT is the main benefit from what I see. Damage from both ele and mes groups seem about the same. Mes has the added benefit of utility though (blind from Inept as an example).

majoho · Apr 08, 2011, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Yeah was kinda my point with my first post in this thread, without knockdowns and snares things like firestorm is just horrible because it makes mob scatter.

The fact is just that something close to the cookie-cutter builds will always be faster, don't get me wrong I experiment and run test builds all the time but mostly the "standard" 3 necros, 2 mesmers and 2 rits will be the best for a wast majority of the game.

Your ability to do good times on your runs is probably more because you are and experienced and good player rather than your builds

Jeydra · Apr 08, 2011, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Comparison times, if you want them, for the areas that I do already have screenshots of:

Forgewight: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&postcount=70
Kathandrax: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=59
Thommis / Rand: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=59

There's a Sepulchre of Dragimmar screenshot somewhere with 3 minutes on the second level, using two Mesmers, but I can't seem to find it.

Wenspire · Apr 08, 2011, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Ya, the challenge to AoE-DoT ele skills is definitely the mob control. The setup works well when you have a good corner-block area but usually is messy when there is not.

Thanks for the links to the run times. Seeing as they were done back before the 7-hero update the times would only be quicker if you redid them. Quite impressive.

From playing with the fire ele-group setup, I think I've come to the conclusion that they do very good damage with their AoE-DoT skills, and even more-so when buffed with the Ebon Ward of Honor. It's just having to deal with the times of enemy scatter that slows things down. I will see about swapping out the necro in the build for something else to see if that will help.

The Only Warrior · Apr 10, 2011, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Well, I attempted to sub in mesmers in place of the eles (had to use 1 necro since I didn't have mercs) and redid Duncan in HM. I ended up with a 27min clear time which was identical to the ele setup time.

I ran an Ineptitude build, 2 mes heroes ran Esurge and the necro ran Panic. The monks, rit and lingering curse necro stayed the same (though I forgot I had a ST-prot rit on my ele run but deaths really weren't a problem with both). Since I didn't have Norgu unlocked initially, he went in as level 18 and was 19 in the middle of the run. I'm sure I probably wasn't running optimal mes builds to others' standards, but I don't know how much better the times would have been if I did.

EDIT:
Thommis in 12min and Rand 19 more. The lack of having to deal with the scattering from DoT is the main benefit from what I see. Damage from both ele and mes groups seem about the same. Mes has the added benefit of utility though (blind from Inept as an example).

This is because Mesmers are just Pwn in PvE, ofc it wins, its almost cheating